topic Re: Various HDD Recording Problems in Android TV

Various HDD Recording Problems

rogerpbill — Sun, 27 Dec 2020 18:38:10 GMT

Our KD43XH8505 and KD-49XH9505 bought since last September both exhibit various problems with HDD recordings:

TV often has to be reset to show previously recorded programmes and timer list. This seems to occur after setting a programme to record then deleting or modifying the timer.
Programs starting at the same time as a previously recorded programme aren't recorded.
Recorded programmes are often labelled with details of the preceding programme.

The software on both TVs was updated to the latest version in November to fix the random flashing/missing frame issue discussed in https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/android-tv/missing-frames-on-usb-hdd-playback/td-p/3688952 We use Samsung T5 1TB USB 3.1 Gen 2 SSDs for recording on both TVs. I've tried auto-tuning the Freeview channels a few times.

Has anyone else experienced similar problems?

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

HannahEd01 — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 17:57:27 GMT

I didn't find any mention for these issues on the support page, so If I were you, I would follow the basics first:

-Perform a power cycle by unplugging everything.

-Make sure you're using supported formats ( FAT16/FAT32/exFAT/NTFS ).

-Make sure the TVs are update (Very recent updates has been published on the support page and not available for the automatic update fully yet.

-A factory reset.

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

rogerpbill — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 20:13:56 GMT

Thank you for your reply HannahEd01. Unfortunately I've already tried all those actions except for the factory reset which I'll leave until I've some more time available.

The problem with recorded programmes being labelled with details of the preceding programme is one that's been reported by several other users between 2011 and 2017: https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/other-tvs/wrong-title-on-hdd-timer-recordings/m-p/223838#M5018 In the past Sony have tried to blame the broadcaster but my old Panasonic HDD recorder has never suffered from this problem.

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

kay4sony — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 10:07:53 GMT

I have a problem recoding BBCs sooner, starting at the end of the previous program and ending earlier, missing the end. Other channels are fine. Since Sony hasn't found any solution/ updates for years, I have to record it manually to avoid missing the ending.

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

MaryKin — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 12:05:32 GMT

Hi Roger I've just joined the forum with the specific goal of resolving HDD recording problems. Like you we have a KD43XH8505 and bought this model with two tuners so that we could record and watch TV at the same time. We also have a (very old) BT YouView box which we keep going because of the ability to pause and rewind live TV (the most annoying lack in the Sony Bravia). Our problems are probably similar to yours - the recording system on the Bravia is clearly not fit for purpose.

In the run up to Christmas we set up the HDD and scoured the programme guide to set recordings for several programmed. We were delighted that everything worked OK and duly located the recordings. Last night we tried to set another timer but this failed so we looked at the existing recordings list. To our huge frustration there were 0 recordings on the HDD - what we did have was a long list of recording errors (all of the previously recorded programmes as well as several weird ones we had never set timers for!). The errors had various explanations (overlap with other recordings, no signal at the time of recording and several others - none of which had actually occurred at the time of the original recordings). We had no alternative but to delete the recording errors then un-register and re-register the HDD. A trial to record gave us a pop up message that timer was set but no red bar in the programme guide and no recording set up in the list. Finally we turned off the TV and turned it on again (something we have also had to do repeatedly in recent weeks since we lose sound in TV apps and this turn off/on is the only way to restore it. I did find one item on a Sony support page on recordings which said that if any power cable is disconnected during recording the recording (or indeed ALL recordings!) may be lost. Could it be possible that we might have turned off the TV to regain our sound whilst a recording was in progress and thereby lost all our recordings? If so we might just abandon all hopes of using the HDD recording facility.

https://helpguide.sony.net/gbmig/ADXM1001/eng/HX72x/ts_tsusbrec.html#ts_24536

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

rogerpbill — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:21:09 GMT

Hi Kay4Sony
bollinger60 makes the following good points in https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/other-tvs/wrong-title-on-hdd-timer-recordings/td-p/223838
The wrong programme information problem occurs if you use either the EPG or manually set the timer. However, if you set the timer to start 1 minute later than the programme is advertised to begin, the proper title is used, although this might mean occasionally losing a minute of the programme. Programmes frequently begin 1 or 2 minutes later than advertised and not just due to adverts as it also happens on BBC and it isn’t caused by live programmes such as sports. The only programmes that begin exactly as advertised are news.

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

rogerpbill — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 13:48:37 GMT

Hi Marykin
Sorry to hear that you’re also suffering similar problems but from a purely selfish point of view I’m glad it’s not just me and, of course, the more who complain to Sony the more likely it is they might fix the problems. In the meantime I might be able to offer suggestions which might help with a couple of your issues:
Have you tried Youview to pause and rewind live TV? This is OK except if you want to record another program at the same time.
Rather than unregistering and reregistering the HDD, try resetting the TV by holding down the green power button for 5 seconds. I’ve found that this causes my previously recorded programmes and the set timers to reappear. I think this problem arises after editing a timer or when a series timer is set. I’ve now resorted to setting single event timers which is an annoying retrograde step from the functionality of my old Panasonic HDD recorder.

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

MaryKin — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 15:45:07 GMT

Thanks for these tips Roger. Our old BT Youview box is not fully reliable and sometimes fails to record but at least it still has all our old recordings and hasn’t deleted them. We are a bit disappointed in the new Sony Bravia to be honest.

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

kay4sony — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 16:20:48 GMT

It only happens on BBCs. A wrong title is confusing, but losing at the end of the film is infuriating. And so, I record manually, starting at the right time and add 5 mins extra. If I have something else to record on a commercial station after BBC, I adjust the timing as they have advert at the beginning. If I forget to do it and the program ends prematurely, I have to see it online!

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

rogerpbill — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 17:03:12 GMT

Hi Kay4Sony and Marykin

If we all contact Sony support it's possible that together our collective voice might motivate them to include a fix in the next software update. Unfortunately I've found dealing with Sony support to be a tedious and frustrating experience. We could also post on product review websites warnings to prospective customers about the HDD recording problems with Sony Android TVs.

The only other alternative I can think of is to buy a PVR like the Manhattan T3-R or Humax Aura (the user interface on the more affordable Humax FVP-5000T is apparently frustratingly slow).

However, I don't feel inclined to spend £200 to £250 so I think I'll just set single event recordings timed to start one minute after the programme start time and finish 5 minutes after the advertised finish time. Extremely disappointing that this should be necessary on our Sony TVs when much older HDD recorders function better and are much easier to use.

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

Joe_Dohn — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 16:24:29 GMT

This might be due to excessive cache/temporary data affecting performance or the timing of the TV.

Maybe try clearing the cached data (Settings - Device Preferences - Storage - Internal Shared Storage - Cached data) and then resetting with the power button as rogerpbill mentioned earlier?

If this doesn't work, maybe try a different HDD? I saw that Western Digital was the recommended brand by Sony, though I can't find that link for the life of me.

- JD

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

rogerpbill — Fri, 01 Jan 2021 16:32:29 GMT

Thanks very much Joe for those suggestions. Unfortunately they don't seem to help. In terms of cached data I had 134Mbytes and 3.4Gbytes free. After clearing, the cache had 19Mbytes so only a small change.

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

rogerpbill — Fri, 01 Jan 2021 23:39:44 GMT

Sorry but just noticed a typo in my original post, point 2 should read

Programs starting at the same time as a previously recorded programme ended aren't recorded.

Also had another programme which failed to record last night. The error message said it was due to a power failure or words to that effect. However we didn't have any power problems and the TV wasn't in use at the time of the scheduled recording.

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

MaryKin — Sat, 02 Jan 2021 11:02:04 GMT

Hi rogerpbill

Thank you for your updates. I think we have reached the end of our tethers with regards to battling with HDD recording on the Sony. In some ways we feel that it is a consumer rights issue because this product is clearly not fit for purpose, but we also feel that we can't face the effort to make a case. The sequence for us is

set timer - recording successful - next day recording has disappeared (it's now a recording error) and no further recording timers can be set - reset the TV (green button) and do a HDD performance check - programmes reappear and recording functionality returned. We haven't yet tried recording two consecutive programmes - I suspect that we will find as you have done that this causes problems also.

We have concluded that recording to HDD is not a big issue for Sony as many people use Sky or other set top boxes and that it is not going to be fixed. Like you we contacted Sony support and got a PhD level reply about steps we should take - we worked through them all but no joy of course. We have reluctantly decided that we will have to follow this route and buy another set top box. The price on our TV is now £200 less than when we bought it three months ago - ouch. It has been good to share our frustrations (and I did write a lengthy review which has not yet been published. There is another one on Richer Sounds website for our TV which exactly describes similar problems though. Good luck with your recording!

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

HannahEd01 — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 15:55:37 GMT

Hi guys, could you make sure that you are using a compatible HDD? https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/televisions-projectors-lcd-tvs-android-/kd-55xf7596/articles/00148248

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

rogerpbill — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 16:44:29 GMT

Many thanks HannahEd01 for joining here and the other thread "Anyone manage problem free recording HDD via USB". Unfortunately the link: www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/televisions-projectors-lcd-tvs-android-/kd-55xf7596/articles/00148248 is broken.

The most recent link I've found is: https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00148248 but 2017 are the most recent Sony TVs to which this list applies.

I've tried a few different USB disc drives but the ones we use are Samsung T5 1TB USB 3.1 Gen 2 SSDs. These high spec SSDs don't require a separate power source and the read/write performance exceed any physical HDD. I doubt the make and model of HDD could be that critical and if it were I'd expect Sony would specify limits on read/write speeds, etc. USB disc drives are designed and manufactured to standards that are supported and are compatible with many, many computers, operating systems software and other equipment such as TVs, cars, phones, music equipment, etc.

Since updating the Sony software to the latest version released in December there's no longer any problem with the quality of the recordings made. Therefore, I don't think there is an HDD compatibility problem. The problems I get with HDD recordings include:

TV often has to be reset to show previously recorded programmes and timer list. This seems to occur after setting a programme to record then deleting or modifying the timer.
Programs starting at the same time as a previous recorded programme ends aren't recorded.
Recorded programmes are often labelled with details of the preceding programme.

I think these symptoms suggest a problem with the way the Sony software handles the UK Freeview EPG data. Perhaps a PVR like the Manhattan T3-R being a UK design might work better with our TV networks' EPG foibles which might not be a priority for manufacturers in other countries. However, I don't feel inclined to spend another c£200 especially as my 2008 Panasonic recorder doesn't suffer any of these problems.

Sorry for rambling on at length but I thought it worth drawing together the key points in the hope of a resolution to these problems.

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

rooobb — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 07:24:14 GMT

Are you aware that SSD are specifically declared as not supported for recording?

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

rogerpbill — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 08:24:13 GMT

Hi rooobb

Many thanks for joining this discussion. I know Sony used to state SSDs weren't supported but according to the most recent article https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00148248

HDDs manufactured by other companies may be used, if they meet the following conditions:

IMPORTANT: Sony cannot guarantee the full operability of other manufacturer's HDDs on the TV, and is not responsible or liable for any issues that may occur.

USB standard: 2.0 or 3.0. When using 3.0, connect the HDD to the blue USB port.
File system, maximum HDD size: Please refer to the FAQ below. What is the maximum file size supported for a USB device and the maximum storage capacity allowed for hard drive that is connected to the TV?
RPM: No condition
Read/Write speed: No condition
Power supply: We recommend HDDs that use an external power supply.
The maximum output current of the TV USB port is below:
- USB port for recording (Recording function is only available for certain models and countries/regions.)
  2K models: 800 mA, 4K models: 900 mA
- Other USB ports: 500 mA

Other than the EPG problems the SSDs I've tried work without problem on our two 2020 Sony Android TVs. I've upgraded quite a few computers from traditional hard disc drives to SSDs without experiencing any compatibility issues. SSDs have no moving parts, are more robust, draw less power and read/write speeds are much better. Hence phones, tablets, etc including those which run Android use SSDs. The only downside of SSDs of which I'm aware is cost.

If the Sony Android TVs really are not compatible with SSDs I would be very interested to know why.

The HDDs I've checked from those listed as compatible with Sony's 2017 TVs in https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00148248 are obsolete. Only HDDs made by Sony are listed as being compatible. I can't find any current Sony HDDs, they only now seem to sell SSDs.

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

rooobb — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 08:47:23 GMT

The actual reason why SSD are not supported (and btw any non-HDD including flash memory but that is easier to understand) is not known by me. Nonetheless SSD, while surely better than HDD, are not the same. One of the biggest difference is the way they allocate data and manage the deletion of same. I'm pretty sure Android TV doesn't support trim https://datarecovery.com/rd/file-deletion-different-solid-state-drives-hard-drives/ since even Apple doesn't do it for non-Apple SSD (even if it can be enabled if you know how to do it).

In short term the missing recording problem can be related to it. I've used a lot of different HDD without any problem (WD essential, Toshiba Canvio and even older ones). I've always chosen <1TB devices in order to avoid power issues.

For the EPG problem I guess is "an EPG problem", since the recording feature rely on it. But it is my guess since it works rather differently in Italy compared to UK Freeview.

Re: Various HDD Recording Problems

rogerpbill — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 19:26:01 GMT

Trim has been included in Android since 2013, version 4.3.