topic Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels in Portable Audio

Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

rob_levine — Mon, 11 Nov 2019 08:24:48 GMT

Hi,

I recently bought Sony WH-1000X M3 headphones; they're great and the noise cancelling is excellent almost all the time, except in train tunnels.

Here, the noise cancelling often cuts out (or otherwise changes) intermittently as the train goes through a tunnel.

I returned the first pair due to this, but the replacement pair exhibits exactly the same behaviour.

I suspect this is air pressure change related.

A huge part of my usage is likely to be on trains, in particular underground trains, and they are just no good in this situation. The background rumble just switches in and out as the train travels through the tunnel.

Does anyone else have this problem, or has anyone found a solution?

By the way, Adaptive Sound Control is definitely disabled, and I have tried multiple optimiser runs.

Thanks in advance,

Rob

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

Pascale_F — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 19:55:18 GMT

Hi Rob,

Welcome to the community.

I'll see if I can find anything out for you. Maybe someone else in the community can help in the meantime.

Thanks,

Pascale

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

tanistlin — Fri, 15 Nov 2019 06:37:01 GMT

YES IT DOES!

I'm grateful that somebody else has put it to words. Bought mine a week ago. It was perfect until i gave it a try in underground. I don't know if it can't handle the noise or is it a problem about changes in air pressure. Below are my cases (in all cases ANC is full on);

The audible glitch effect for me is the tune & sound level of the song that is played begins changing like it's playing from a very old gramaphone or magnetic tape, gets better for a few seconds and happens again.

1) In underground trains, this effect amplifies while arriving and leaving stations. (this might also point that sth related with air pressure change)

2) In vans or cars, if only one of the windows is half open, above a speed of 30 mph, the glitch begins. (I'm not driving while using the pair, both of the cases were happened while i was the passenger)

- The effect was not audible while windows are closed and in heavy traffic. This needs to be tested with a vehicle windows closed and in higher speeds.

Somebody please tell me that it's sth related with software etc. and fixable because I loved the product and I definetely want to use it in daily commutes. Besides, I do wonder about the cases in airplanes!

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

The_Black_Rose — Fri, 15 Nov 2019 18:39:36 GMT

Hi Rob_levine,

I've read about this online. The noise cancellation function is only effective in low frequency band. Although the noise is reduced, it won't be cancelled completely.

I'd recommend having a look here: https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00203389

Cheers,
The_Black_Rose

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

rob_levine — Fri, 15 Nov 2019 21:18:44 GMT

[apologies if you see a multiple post - the system keeps telling me my reply is being deleted as it is spam]

Hi @The_Black_Rose ,

Thanks for your reply.

You are right in that noise cancellation is less effective in the higher band, but that isn't the issue I'm describing. In fact, even though not quite as good in the high band it is still pretty remarkable on the train. The background rumble of the train is reduced considerably.

The issue I'm experiencing is as @tanistlin describes. Basically, when the train goes into a tunnel (or if you are travelling on an underground train), then the noise cancellation seems to get confused. It'll be absolutely fine (and doing a great job) for a while - maybe 10 or 20 seconds, and then it'll pulse as if someone just turned up the volume (of the music and the background noise). This lasts about a second, and then it jumps back to being well behaved. This pulsing effect continues (somewhat aperiodically) until the train leaves the tunnel. It makes it very hard to listen to music as you are constantly distracted by this pulsing volume behaviour.

I had already suspected it was air pressure related, and @tanistlin 's experiments seem to support this.

It definitely ins't the intended behaviour, but I'm wondering if it a faulty unit (second one for me, if so), a software glitch, or genuinely a design issue on the headphones. The fact that 500 people have viewed the issue but only one has replied that they have the same problem makes me feel it is probably a faulty unit; using noise cancelling headphones in a train tunnel is pretty common use case).

Thanks again for your time,

Rob

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

tanistlin — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 06:15:41 GMT

Hi @The_Black_Rose thanks for your time, however no offense intended but i really don't get the point in misdirecting topics with totally unrelated references.

It's clear as day what we've been through along with the topic owner and it's not about that units are unable to cancel the noise enough but they simply spoil the sound to the level of being unlistenable. I'm totally ok with listening with some extra unhandled background noise but it's impossible to listen to a content with all the pulses and glitching, be it a song or podcast or audiobook.

Please do share your specialist opinion on whether this could be due to a faulty unit or a known issue with firmware updates but it's obvious that this device could not be intended to work this way, especially when you think about a use case as common as this. Thanks.

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

tanistlin — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 12:05:33 GMT

@rob_levine

Any opinion as to this might be related to the all time trending topic of cracking/popping sound? https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/portable-audio/wh-1000xm3-cracking-popping-noise/m-p/2523380#M5247

Symptoms being told there seems related to me in terms of external affections like walking outside, windy air, in a car windows open, on a bus, train etc.

Would it be that we're experiencing the same issue with different symptoms? Are you experiencing cracking/popping issue outside of this topic?

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

The_Black_Rose — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 11:00:11 GMT

Hi,

The part I was referring to is " When you use the headset in a train or a car, noise may occur depending on environmental conditions".

Also, it's mentioned by Sony that in tunnels and other environments in which air pressure changes easily, noise (creaking, clicking, static, etc.) may be heard.

Cheers,
The_Black_Rose

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

randomvariable — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 12:16:09 GMT

Hi,

This problem is reproducible on the latest firmware.

This is definitely related to the pressure-related parts of the noise cancelling system. Please note that it doesn't make the noise cancelling less effective, it actually seriously distorts the sound that it is almost unlistenable.

The effect is most pronounced on trains when in tunnels - e.g. much of the London Underground system, and all of its deep tunnel lines, or when passing another train at speed (at least above 110km/h).

I am fortunate not to have to commute to work, but if I did I would not be able to use these headphones.

Other headphones with not quite as good overall noise cancelling don't suffer these effects, such as Plantronics, Sennheiser and older, lower-end Sony products. Would it be possible to add an option to disable the pressure-related parts of the noise cancelling system, preferably detected automatically as a subset of the transportation mode?

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

tanistlin — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 10:11:47 GMT

@randomvariable Exactly what i've been through.

I also note that my firmware is 4.1.1 (out of the box) and was not upgraded to 4.2.2

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

rob_levine — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 08:36:09 GMT

I ended up returning my pair and buying another replacement (i.e. third pair) from another vendor altogether in case it was a fault with a batch.

Disappointingly, the effect is still there, so I doubt it is a fault isolated to a few pairs. More likely firmware or fundamental design issue.

On the plus side, I wore mine on a plane - once in the air - and they were superb. I think this reinforces that it is changing pressure rather then absolute pressure that causes the issue.

I'm really hoping for a firmware fix here.

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

AndyND — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 12:43:21 GMT

I am experiencing the same issue, also mostly on the London Underground Tubes.

Am on Firmware 4.2.2

Tested with music off with only the NC on.

The wave of noises seep through mostly when the tube is at the highest speed.

It feels like the NC was tripped off for quick second or that the noise or wind was brushing over the NC microphone.

Am on the fence of returning this headphone for another brand as I mostly use it for commuting on the Underground Tube.

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

rob_levine — Mon, 09 Dec 2019 10:02:59 GMT

@AndyND

"It feels like the NC was tripped off for quick second" - actually yes - that is a pretty good description of effect.

I'm having the issue on London Underground too, plus one of the main lines into London.

At first, I wondered if it might be a single bad batch, so was going to ask people if they were London based to see if we could all be part of the same faulty batch. However, the fact it affects 3 headphones, bought 6 weeks apart from two different vendors (one in central London, the other Amazon) makes me doubt this hypothesis now.

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

Jhericurls — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 17:13:16 GMT

I got my headphones last week and today was the first time on the underground and the headphones was almost unusable on some of the journey. The change in pressure was causing the headphones to adjust the volume to compensate and sounded glitchy.

I searched to see if my unit was faulty and found this thread. I'm surprised there isn't more on this as its a serious deal breaker for anyone who uses them to commute on the underground, as they are unusable.

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

1ceb0x — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 11:01:43 GMT

I have the exact same issue. My pair of M3s was bought in december this year (my dear PXC550 has failed exactly after warranty) and so decided to give Sony a spin since I have so many colleagues that are happy with them.

Sadly after a few weeks of use, it became apparent that they have an issue with coping with external sounds in some situations. The best example is in the tube. I too live in London and my commute is on the overground. Still, I have constant issues in the tube where the sound gets distorted, it becames 'woobly', for the lack of a better word. Or how you guys put it 'sounds like an old gramophone for a few seconds, then returns back to normal'.

This definitely seems to be an issue with the pressure, as I get a similar kind of issue if I cover both earphones with my hands and press on them while listening to music. This issue does not happen otherwise (i.e while walking outside, while sitting indoors etc). It mostly seems to be happening in the tube where the air pressure changes constantly.

Doesn't look like a hardware fault, more like software, but I can't say i'm not disappointed. I wasn't expecting to have issues from a premium pair of headphones at this price. My PXC550, although a tad bit cheaper overall, were a better bang for my buck. Managed to squeeze those for 2 years on a day to day constant use and had no issues until the plastic failed.

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

Scrambleded — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 22:26:48 GMT

Well it's not just me then! Pleased to have found this forum after 3 calls with Sony support trying to explain this problem without any fix. Precisely as described. Seemed to be working brilliantly but since resuming the London Underground commute listening has been really poor with NC intermittently turning off for a second here or there as I travel. With the loud noise on the underground this means a very obvious interference. Also experience the very poor sound quality on the tube from time to time, like a blown speaker.

My question to others suffering is this... I don't recall the problem happening prior to Christmas? This seems to be a new thing. I'm sure I'd have noticed if they were before but i can't be 100%. They didn't have noticeable issues on my first week of wear. It's possible I've updated the firmware since and I'm wondering if it might be a latest firmware glitch. Has anyone tried factory resetting them?

And do you find turning off NC solves the problem?

Pondering on next steps. Reluctant to return them, as they work so well otherwise (for me it's just the train travel, overground sometimes, underground mainly), particularly if it's a software glitch which could be fixed with a reset or update.

Would appreciate any thoughts so I can decide what to do ....

Would love to keep them if possible

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

Rsjago — Wed, 22 Jan 2020 06:39:37 GMT

Hi Rob, and others,

Im having the exact same problem. Certainly no crackling or static or something like that. Bought them 2 days ago. All of a sudden while in a tunnel the noise cancelling seems to change its behavior all of a sudden. Kind of annoying while going through tunnels. All of a sudden a wave of volume/noise change hit you and goes away. Gets you out of the listening experience. I now turn noise cancelling of on trains, which I bought it for;). The headphones are great, but this seems like solvable problem.
maybe include a train mode or something like that.

Regards

robbert

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

mrblanco101 — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 12:36:51 GMT

Hi all,

Completely agree with each of the above posts. Happens to me always when going through tunnels, often when another High speed train goes past the one I'm travelling on and sometimes when train doors shut- must be something to do with pressure change as each of these examples cause a sudden change in pressure.

Robbert, particularly well described- like a woompfh of louder sound before it adjusts back to how it was playing originally.

Hopefully this issue will be resolvable through a software update. Train mode idea is great- would hope Sony are able to come up with a way to prevent the NC being so clearly distorted by sudden changes such as tunnels.

Cheers,

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

Tobinator — Mon, 24 Feb 2020 14:22:26 GMT

Hi all,

just wanted to add my voice, I have sent my pair back after hearing exactly what is described here in this thread. A colleague also has the same issue but is living with it (shorter commute - pos shallower tunnels). I actually tipped off a guy at Trusted Reviews called Kob Monney who reviews headphones. Said he hadn’t experienced it with his - but I made him aware of this thread. I doubt it is firmware solvable. I’m now looking at Bowers & Wilkins PX7 or Bose 700.

i told Sony Support about my issue. Such a shame as awesome product out of the London Underground.

good luck all

Re: Sony WH-1000X M3 noise cancelling glitches in train tunnels

victorlisteningtothings — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 18:03:50 GMT

Bit of an old thread but was directly relevant to my experiences with the XM4s. I commute to and fro London, and this track goes through a fair number of tunnels at high speeds. I didn't notice the glitches on my way to London, but today after work it was really bad - sounds exactly like a gramophone that was slowed down so all the music was off-key, before speeding back up. It wasn't just the tunnels - even bridges! I think the consensus on this thread is that this issue is from sudden changes in ambient pressure. One thing that seems to help is to use the app to turn the noise cancellation level to 1 or 2, and to set the "Focus on Voice" option. I will try to report back tomorrow after work when I'm going through lots of tunnels.