IP68. A standard cannot be redefined. The XZP is waterproof - otherwise Sony simply lied.

[IlluX]

Hey there,

I just received message from Sony Germany stating that the XZP must not be full submerged in water.

I'm curious - did Sony developers ever read the ISO standard on ingress protection? The phone is IP68 certified, that means and let me quote: 

"IP68 - Protected from long term immersion up to a specified pressure." That specified pressure is commonly 5 feet, 1.5 meters or 0,15 bar.

Now, as Sony claims their smartphones are IP68 certified that means we can all spend our days submerging our phones in water without being scared of any damages - am I right, dear Sony staff?

If not, that would mean you either didn't test your deviced or you lied on purpose. Both make excellent reasons for lawsuites or should AT LEAST make you consider to refund all devices sold so far. 

Once again, a standard is a standard because it defines a standard. You cannot redefine a standard on your own.

To underline my arguments, let me quote your webpage (yes, the Sony webpage)

http://support.sonymobile.com/global-en/dm/waterproof/

"IPX8. Protected against the effects of continued immersion in water at depths greater than 1 metre. The exact conditions are specified for each device by the manufacturer."

So, the XZP is waterproof - right?

[Shnig]

Am I missing something here? Ip68 means that it can withstand being submerged up to 1m depth for up to 30 minutes. Can anyone provide a link to a video or any other proof that this phone fails if submerged in 99cms of water for 29 mins 59 seconds? Because if they can't provide this proof I do not see how Sony lied. It would be standard procedure for a manufacturer to limit their liability by saying do not submerge.

[IlluX]

There is videos giving proper evidence that the device fails. Sony warns users to submerge the device at all and won't take liability for water damage. That is exactly the point of criticism. 

[Shnig]

Link?

[Qatrium]

The answer simply lies in the link provided by the OP:

What this means for my device

Your device has an IP rating. This means that under a strictly controlled laboratory environment, the hardware works as designed even after being exposed to specific conditions.

Sony devices that are tested for their waterproof abilities are placed gently inside a container filled with tap water and lowered to a depth of 1.5 meters. After 30 minutes in the container, the device is gently taken out and its functions and features are tested.

If you can reproduce the same conditions stated in the clause above, and then you found your phone got water-damaged and caught this on video, then congratulations! You can now sue Sony for good cash

Any playing around with the phone, pressing buttons, playing with the touchscreen, or any action not mentioned in the test procedure will not put any liability on Sony, I'm afraid.

And also read the IP definition:

IPX8

Protected against the effects of continued immersion in water at depths greater than 1 meter. The exact conditions are specified for each device by the manufacturer.

Sony here specified the exact conditions and put a warning not to use the device under water not just to limit liability, but also to stop misuse by customers. It's impossible to prove how was the device got damaged by water when you send it to a repair shop. Neither you can prove that you had the SIM flap closed firmly while using it under water, not the repair shop can prove that you didn't. That's why water damage is excluded from global warranty.

Final note: I did use some of my Z-series phones under water, even in pools, and everything went fine while and after using it. No water damage. Maybe I was lucky or maybe the devices are really waterproof. But after that, I lost the hype and I don't think I'll do this with any device with a premium price tag. If I really want some decent underwater photos I'll just use a GoPro!

[Shnig]

Thank you for putting it more elequently than I could. The nonsense in this thread was bothering me.

[IlluX]

"Protected against the effects of continued immersion in water at depths greater than 1 meter."

That is the minimum requirement. The manufacturer can state exact conditions, of course - if they fulfill the minimum defined by the standard. 

[Qatrium]

---

@IlluX wrote:

"Protected against the effects of continued immersion in water at depths greater than 1 meter."

That is the minimum requirement. The manufacturer can state exact conditions, of course - if they fulfill the minimum defined by the standard. 

---

@IlluX

Nothing wrong there also:

Continued immersion = 30 minutes immersion

Depth greater than 1 meter = Depth at 1.5 meters

[IlluX]

Quester, yes.

So why does Sony tell us that we should not submerge our devices? Why is it that devices were obviously damaged under the given conditions?

I know what I'm talking about. 

If Sony would confirm that we can use our devices that way - ok, that would be amazing. But instead Sony warns us.

[ASNXMAT]

refering to the standard.

here i am talking about the IEC standard 60529 as the official reference for ingress protection!

in short this is what the standard define:

the standard states IPx8 as continuas immersion supject to agreement between manufacturer and user provided that it provides protection better than IPx7 and the considuration of the device designed to be continuasly immersed in actual use. 

the standard defines the test conditions of IPx7 devices but leaves the IPx8 to be desided on the agreement between the manufacturer and user provided that the it provides better protection than IPx7.

now,

what is the protection and testing agreement between the manufacturer and the user?

how do we define actual use?

in what conditions the device shall be continuasly immesed?

[Kunicross]

I think the protection has propably improved from Xperia generation to generation just the marketing is much more conservative now - and I guess that is due to customers getting the impression you could take you phone on your diving trip no problem on early xperia phones and propably a whole lot of broken phones,  dreams and angry customers in the progress. (also most manufacturers have jumped onto the train so it's not such an unique feature any more.) 

And don't forget the specifications are always for sweet water! (my Z1 survived the Atlantic any way but I was a bit worried afterwards when I found out what the specifications actually are...) 

Submerged at 1 - 1.5 meters means it should stand an additional pressure of about 100 - 150 mbar or about 0.15 bar I guess with rapid movement you can easily get over that,  locally. So with a bid of bad luck dropping it into the sink could break it (probably with water the chance of survival are better, screen on porcelain is usually not a good idea)