Big issues with XH90 color banding becouse no smooth gradation

[MickeJGS]

Hello, 

I am an owner of SONY XH90, my TV has big problems with color banding. Because SONY made a decision not to include the "smooth gradation" function, I have looked at older SONY TV models that apparently have "smooth gradation" where the function works as it should, improves the picture. All new SONY TV 2021 with XR processor must also have "smooth grading". But for some reason, SONY has chosen not to include this feature on the XH90. And this results in a worse image. Why should you as a customer then accept that SONY seems to know there are problems with XH90 and color banding. There is talk that future updates may solve the problem, give a better picture.

But despite 1 year of problems with color banding, which SONY seems to be aware of, it has not gotten better, because SONY does not seem particularly interested in not installing a feature that apparently gives a better picture on a TV? How is it then not a manufacturing error if color banding occurs due to a function that does not exist, but which would be better if the function is installed? Why should you as a customer be satisfied with a TV you generally get a worse picture of due to conscious choice from SONY?

I have examples of how bad it can really look, it destroys the pleasure when you watch TV when you see it does not look good, but the function "smooth gradation" How should you as a customer keep track of which features are not included, how much worse will the image be without the feature? Does SONY think there is a problem with XH90 has color banding due to SONY chosen not to include "smooth gradation"?

I don't get any support from either SONY or from the store i bougt it from

Becouse of a missing funtion you wasen't aware of, you apparently have to accept bad picture, becouse TV can't handle it without "smooth gradation" is not installed

As long as SONY choose not to install "smooth gradation" with future firmware update my XH90 gonna have a bad picture

How are you suppose to know about a funktion TV is missing, getting bad picture if it's not there? But it's on many other and older SONY TV do better picture?

[MickeJGS]

SONY is obviously just OK with a TV having a bad picture becouse they removed "smooth gradation" function?

So my questions to SONY, 

1. Does XH90 having issues with color banding becouse of missing function "smooth gradation"?

2. If XH90 have issues with color banding becouse of missing function "smooth gradation", is it becouse of manufacturing defects?

3. If it is a manufacturing defects, is it becouse of firmware?

4. If it is a If it is a manufacturing defects, becouse of firmware, can it be fixed with future firmware update?

XH90 with color banding becouse no function "smooth gradation"

https://ibb.co/YdVN2SQ

A TV with "smooth gradation", no color banding

https://ibb.co/tPB17ML 

Does SONY think XH90 have issues with color banding, becouse XH90 does not have "smooth gradation" function installed? If XH90 have "smooth gradation" function installed, XH90 would have a better picture, not bad picture now?

[MickeJGS]

Latest respond from SONY

SONY is blaming on "how the material is recorded and with that technology and has nothing to do with the TV's technology

But i have compared with 2 TV, XH90 does not have "smooth gradation" The other TV has "smooth gradation"

SONY is blaming on how the material is recorde, but all other tv with !smooth gradation! can handle it?

Thank you for your photos and the information you have assisted us with.

Our technical department has looked at the pictures and concluded that the color grading depends on how the material is recorded and with what technology and has nothing to do with the TV's technology.

Please come back if you have further questions regarding this.

Sincerely.

[rooobb]

When you bought your XH90 were you aware of the differences between XH90 and XH95 and why the latter was more expensive than the XH90 while not having any HDMI 2.1 feature?

The main difference is that XH95 has a Sony coprocessor for enhancing the images that the XH90 does not have, and the smooth gradation feature is done by it. So it cannot simply be implemented on the XH90 and you have to rely more on the quality of the source to have a good image rendering.

[MickeJGS]

The only thing i was aware of XH90 and XH95, XH95 does not have 2.1, that XH90 was suppose to have, don't know if they have fixed that issue with XH90 and 2.1 and VRR as promised do XH90 the "official TV" for Playstation 5?  I have tested smooth gradation on 5 different TV with same source, and a SONY TV from 2018, so i  bought this TV from 2020, that have worse picture. Obviously smooth gradation is a software issue and not a hardware issue? Which could be installde with a future firmware update, but SONY apparently does not want that? Maybe 20% of the stuff im watching can have issues of color banding, but would have been improved if XH90 had missing function smooth gradation. If i know what i do know today, i wouldn't bought it 1 years ago. Many "professional reviewrs" on youtube seems not to be intrested do testings with "smooth gradation" i see many jump over this function in the setting when they do their reviews!

[rooobb]

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@MickeJGS  ha scritto:

The only thing i was aware of XH90 and XH95, XH95 does not have 2.1, that XH90 was suppose to have, [...]

Obviously smooth gradation is a software issue and not a hardware issue? Which could be installde with a future firmware update, but SONY apparently does not want that? [...].

Many "professional reviewrs" on youtube seems not to be intrested do testings with "smooth gradation" i see many jump over this function in the setting when they do their reviews!

---

So if XH90 has more feature how did you explain why XH95 was more expensive?

As I wrote before, smooth gradation is a feature based on the coprocessor available, so it cannot be implemented only via software

Professional reviewers tend to discard this option since it alters the source (smoothing the banding but also removing some details), but I agree it can be very useful for low quality source. You just got the wrong set if you were not looking for gaming features against image quality

[MickeJGS]

SONY USA is talking about future firmware update could be installed? That's why my guess it's software issue? I have a SONY TV from 2018, that have smooth gradation, with great picture! Now when i know what smooth gradation is, and what it does, i have tested in on tv channels, movie apps and youtube, same results on TV where it's working. With XH90 same content and source looks "broken" At worse it looks like 8 bit content, like commodore 64 or minecraft with bricks. It seems my panel have big issue with a combination of dark, gray and blue. Maybe 20% of what im watcing i can see "colorbanding" when it's not a "control" for it, it's annoying you cant 't adjust it! 

[rooobb]

For what I understood almost all you watch on TV is actually 8bit color (more than commodore 64 in any case (*)) being that only HDR content is 10 bit. And please before comparing the results on various TV have a look at the specification on the video processor they use (X1, X1 extreme, X1 ultimate , XR) and check if the one spotting the smooth gradation feature has the same as the XH90.

Than if you still want to wait for a software upgrade you are free to do it 

(*) Commodor 64 was able to display 16 colors (4bits), just for fun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_8-bit_computer_hardware_graphics#Commodore_64

[MickeJGS]

Of what im watching, maybe 20% is showing color banding. I can see it on streaming tv channels, watching youtube and watching NETFLIX, HBOMAX, but never see it on DISNEY. On some movies it's only for a few seconds on a 2 hour movie, still anoying when you see it! I see color banding alot on commercial breaks. If smoot gradation function is such a big deal, then why was not more talkning about it? When i bought XH90, i didn't know what it was, what was i suppose to look after, when it's not in the settings? When i see old reviews on youtube i saw then, now i see, all "professional reviewrs" is skipping that part, no one never compare how something looks like with or with out smooth contest. I knew what blooming, leaking and bleeding is. My fokls have the SONY 55AF8, released in 2018. It have smooth gradation, good picture on everything. I didn't know what that meant. Now if i search on smooth gradation in swedish, i find only 1 article mention it, but i didn't know what is what, what is meant a year ago. But most "professional reviewrs" should inlude testing of "smooth gradation" so you actually can see different in a something compare with anything. Now when i know all this, this is tie first ting i always try and testing a new tv

 

[rooobb]

I understood that you think it s a feature you value much, now you know what you are looking for in a TV set. The new x90j has it spotting an XR processor and the x90h doesn't. Btw I think that the af8 OLED differences are far more important that only the smooth gradation feature even if older than the XH90 (and should have been far more expensive than the XH90 at the time)