Various HDD Recording Problems

[rogerpbill]

Our KD43XH8505 and KD-49XH9505 bought since last September both exhibit various problems with HDD recordings:

1. TV often has to be reset to show previously recorded programmes and timer list. This seems to occur after setting a programme to record then deleting or modifying the timer.
2. Programs starting at the same time as a previously recorded programme aren't recorded.
3. Recorded programmes are often labelled with details of the preceding programme.

The software on both TVs was updated to the latest version in November to fix the random flashing/missing frame issue discussed in https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/android-tv/missing-frames-on-usb-hdd-playback/td-p/3688952 We use Samsung T5 1TB USB 3.1 Gen 2 SSDs for recording on both TVs. I've tried auto-tuning the Freeview channels a few times.

Has anyone else experienced similar problems? 

[Joe_Dohn]

This might be due to excessive cache/temporary data affecting performance or the timing of the TV.

Maybe try clearing the cached data (Settings - Device Preferences - Storage - Internal Shared Storage - Cached data) and then resetting with the power button as rogerpbill mentioned earlier?

If this doesn't work, maybe try a different HDD? I saw that Western Digital was the recommended brand by Sony, though I can't find that link for the life of me.

- JD

[rogerpbill]

Thanks very much Joe for those suggestions.  Unfortunately they don't seem to help. In terms of cached data I had 134Mbytes and 3.4Gbytes free. After clearing, the cache had 19Mbytes so only a small change.

[rogerpbill]

Sorry but just noticed a typo in my original post, point 2 should read

Programs starting at the same time as a previously recorded programme ended aren't recorded.

Also had another programme which failed to record last night. The error message said it was due to a power failure or words to that effect. However we didn't have any power problems and the TV wasn't in use at the time of the scheduled recording.

[MaryKin]

Hi rogerpbill

Thank you for your updates. I think we have reached the end of our tethers with regards to battling with HDD recording on the Sony. In some ways we feel that it is a consumer rights issue because this product is clearly not fit for purpose, but we also feel that we can't face the effort to make a case. The sequence for us is

set timer - recording successful - next day recording has disappeared (it's now a recording error) and no further recording timers can be set - reset the TV (green button) and do a HDD performance check - programmes reappear and recording functionality returned. We haven't yet tried recording two consecutive programmes - I suspect that we will find as you have done that this causes problems also.

We have concluded that recording to HDD is not a big issue for Sony as many people use Sky or other set top boxes and that it is not going to be fixed. Like you we contacted Sony support and got a PhD level reply about steps we should take - we worked through them all but no joy of course. We have reluctantly decided that we will have to follow this route and buy another set top box. The price on our TV is now £200 less than when we bought it three months ago - ouch. It has been good to share our frustrations (and I did write a lengthy review which has not yet been published. There is another one on Richer Sounds website for our TV which exactly describes similar problems though. Good luck with your recording!

[HannahEd01]

Hi guys, could you make sure that you are using a compatible HDD? https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/televisions-projectors-lcd-tvs-android-/kd-55xf7596/artic...

[rogerpbill]

Many thanks HannahEd01 for joining here and the other thread "Anyone manage problem free recording HDD via USB". Unfortunately the link: www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/televisions-projectors-lcd-tvs-android-/kd-55xf7596/articles/0014...  is broken.

The most recent link I've found is: https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00148248 but 2017 are the most recent Sony TVs to which this list applies.

I've tried a few different USB disc drives but the ones we use are Samsung T5 1TB USB 3.1 Gen 2 SSDs. These high spec SSDs don't require a separate power source and the read/write performance exceed any physical HDD. I doubt the make and model of HDD could be that critical and if it were I'd expect Sony would specify limits on read/write speeds, etc. USB disc drives are designed and manufactured to standards that are supported and are compatible with many, many computers, operating systems software and other equipment such as TVs, cars, phones, music equipment, etc.

Since updating the Sony software to the latest version released in December there's no longer any problem with the quality of the recordings made. Therefore, I don't think there is an HDD compatibility problem. The problems I get with HDD recordings include:

1. TV often has to be reset to show previously recorded programmes and timer list. This seems to occur after setting a programme to record then deleting or modifying the timer.
2. Programs starting at the same time as a previous recorded programme ends aren't recorded.
3. Recorded programmes are often labelled with details of the preceding programme.

I think these symptoms suggest a problem with the way the Sony software handles the UK Freeview EPG data. Perhaps a PVR like the Manhattan T3-R being a UK design might work better with our TV networks' EPG foibles which might not be a priority for manufacturers in other countries. However, I don't feel inclined to spend another c£200 especially as my 2008 Panasonic recorder doesn't suffer any of these problems.

Sorry for rambling on at length but I thought it worth drawing together the key points in the hope of a resolution to these problems.

[rooobb]

Are you aware that SSD are specifically declared as not supported for recording?

[rogerpbill]

Hi rooobb

Many thanks for joining this discussion. I know Sony used to state SSDs weren't supported but according to the most recent article https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00148248

>>

HDDs manufactured by other companies may be used, if they meet the following conditions:

 IMPORTANT: Sony cannot guarantee the full operability of other manufacturer's HDDs on the TV, and is not responsible or liable for any issues that may occur.

• USB standard: 2.0 or 3.0. When using 3.0, connect the HDD to the blue USB port.
• File system, maximum HDD size: Please refer to the FAQ below. What is the maximum file size supported for a USB device and the maximum storage capacity allowed fo...
• RPM: No condition
• Read/Write speed: No condition
• Power supply: We recommend HDDs that use an external power supply.
• The maximum output current of the TV USB port is below:
• • USB port for recording (Recording function is only available for certain models and countries/regions.)
    2K models: 800 mA, 4K models: 900 mA
  • Other USB ports: 500 mA

<<

Other than the EPG problems the SSDs I've tried work without problem on our two 2020 Sony Android TVs. I've upgraded quite a few computers from traditional hard disc drives to SSDs without experiencing any compatibility issues. SSDs have no moving parts, are more robust, draw less power and read/write speeds are much better. Hence phones, tablets, etc including those which run Android use SSDs. The only downside of SSDs of which I'm aware is cost.

If the Sony Android TVs really are not compatible with SSDs I would be very interested to know why.

The HDDs I've checked from those listed as compatible with Sony's 2017 TVs in https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00148248 are obsolete. Only HDDs made by Sony are listed as being compatible. I can't find any current Sony HDDs, they only now seem to sell SSDs.

[rooobb]

The actual reason why SSD are not supported (and btw any non-HDD including flash memory but that is easier to understand) is not known by me. Nonetheless SSD, while surely better than HDD, are not the same. One of the biggest difference is the way they allocate data and manage the deletion of same. I'm pretty sure Android TV doesn't support trim https://datarecovery.com/rd/file-deletion-different-solid-state-drives-hard-drives/ since even Apple doesn't do it for non-Apple SSD (even if it can be enabled if you know how to do it).

In short term the missing recording problem can be related to it. I've used a lot of different HDD without any problem (WD essential, Toshiba Canvio and even older ones). I've always chosen <1TB devices in order to avoid power issues.

For the EPG problem I guess is "an EPG problem", since the recording feature rely on it. But it is my guess since it works rather differently in Italy compared to UK Freeview.

[rogerpbill]

Trim has been included in Android since 2013, version 4.3.